I have read a book called Ishmael. It’s a good book. It’s a philosophical book (fictional, but philosophical, there’s a telepathic ape….) that points out some very interesting and demonstrably true things in our world as it functions today and as it has functioned for quite some time.
In particular, I’m curious about what anyone happens to think about this little scenario, which is something I’ve said before reading Ishmael, but no one had any good answer about. I do not think anyone can/would have any answer to it now either; however, I’m a glutton for punishment.
Christianity states that the creator made the earth and all things in/on it. How is this different from any other mythology? I ask this question first because it will bring me to another item that is related. In particular, what makes the story of creation (pushed by Creationists) any different from the story of creation from the Romans or Greeks? Story aside, what really sets them apart? This leads me to the next bit, which has nothing to do with Christians. What is the “official” creation story that we have today?
As a Buddhist, I’m not sure that it matters which of them is true. If I had to pick one I’d go with the official science creation story; however, there’s a problem with the two faith based ones that may or may not (depending on a person’s bent) be a problem in the “official” creation story. That is, the purpose of the earth. The Greek or Roman mythologies each stop with the earth being pretty much the whim of the gods and created for man. The christian creation story says the same thing, the creator created earth and stopped with man. The “official” creation story (big bang/evolution) doesn’t say this, but depending on one’s bent one could see where it’s been stated that humans are the peak of evolution and the earth is ours to rule. I’m not sure I can go along with that. Not that it means anything to anyone else of course lol.
Again, as a Buddhist, I think it’s incorrect (I want to refrain from using the word wrong because that can imply to some people a moral reference where I do not mean one) to believe that the world was created for man. Just what exactly is wrong with the idea that the world wasn’t made for man? Man isn’t the end of evolution, and when man is gone (should we all cease to exist, such as in some catastrophic world wide event) does that mean the world no longer serves a purpose? Of course not, Earth will continue to exist and support life that has survived. Then again, maybe not. What is the purpose of any creation story, science, mythology, etc? What does it perpetuate in our society as it functions today?
This brings to mind another thought (obviously, it’s in my mind?) Why does man insist on treating the world and all that is in it counter to how the rest of the world functions? I’m curious about that. Man doesn’t compete with other animals, instead he destroys them. An example would be lions and gazelle. A lion will chase down a gazelle. The entire herd of them takes off running. As soon as the lion captures the gazelle, the herd stops running and proceeds to go back to grazing or drinking from the water. Why is that? To the best of my knowledge, this is because lions don’t kill in a manner that means to create extinction. They capture food and sit down to eat it, or drag it to safety, then eat it. The gazelle otherwise (unless being actively hunted at the time) pretty much ignore the lion. They are not enemies. Humans on the other hand do not function this way. Well, they no longer function this way. People in one of my cultures (Native Americans) would hunt enough to feed themselves. Kill a bison or two, and the other bison went about their business. Then came poachers, that slaughtered entire herds of bison/buffalo just for their pelts. Not to feed anyone, just to take their pelts and make money. The carcass simply rotted in the sun. Truly sad.
Quick Clarification: The above isn’t to say that as soon as the white man (or any man at all) came along that the world fell apart. That would be highly ignorant and highly offensive to I don’t know, the whole US population? As stated in a comment below, I’m not romanticizing Native American culture, this could easily apply to many cultures outside of them the further back into history we go. Thanks!
An interesting thought, what is the end result of creating more food in which to feed the starving? What happens when those that are starving are no longer starving? What happens then, what is the event that perpetuates the existence of starving people? I believe I know the answer, and I know I do not have a solution. In other words I know enough to know I don’t know hehe.
I don’t think the native Americans were as noble as people modernly portray them. I think that people were more mindful of their resources in older times because their resources were right in front of them instead of being supermarket products shipped in from magical far away lands. I read about some of my people (the Cherokee) who would sometimes hunt by setting fire to the forrest and then killing every animal that fled.
Also, I’ve seen documentaries that show animals in the wild sometimes killing for sport. They usually don’t because life is hard and they have to focus all their energies on survival. I remember a documentary on lions and hyenas that had a sequence wherein the lions were full after a fresh kill and so they separated a hyena from its pack and spent the night slowly killing it for fun.
But I can’t speak for xtianity because I view it as just another mythology, one that is currently popular in my place and time in the world. Any religion that doesn’t prophesy the end of the world at the feet of the Giant Atomic Chickens™ is incomplete. But I’m willing to fake any religion that would get me a hot Asian girlfriend.
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“I don’t think the native Americans were as noble as people modernly portray them. I think that people were more mindful of their resources in older times because their resources were right in front of them instead of being supermarket products shipped in from magical far away lands. I read about some of my people (the Cherokee) who would sometimes hunt by setting fire to the forrest and then killing every animal that fled.”
Well my portion of the Cherokee tribe was much better than your portion of the Cherokee tribe! Seriously though, I wouldn’t go so far as to try to romanticize any Native American tribe and say that they were just the better part of humanity in North America. It’s much more correct and honest to say that the further back in humanity you go the ‘better’ they were with their resources. I’ll make that more clear up there.
I used Native Americans because I’m familiar with them, not because I felt like seeing if I could piss off some pale skins today or something. Although be honest, you wanted stab me in the face right? hehe (please don’t kill me).
That reminds me of a video I saw of a monkey that was harassing a group of tigers. Animals do interesting things when they are “bored” (I think that’s the right word to use). Animals also exhibit homosexual and incestual behavior, but generally speaking animals only leave their typical behavior pattern for making kills and prey when there are circumstances that create situations in which they can safely go outside of their typical behavior. Where’d you see that video I’d love to have a gander at it…for the torture bit of it. *blinks*
“Any religion that doesn’t prophesy the end of the world at the feet of the Giant Atomic Chickens™ is incomplete. But I’m willing to fake any religion that would get me a hot Asian girlfriend.”
I find your points interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
I think I know a hot Asian chick that lives in your area. I’ll get back to you!
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“Christianity states that the creator made the earth and all things in/on it. How is this different from any other mythology? ”
I don’t think I really understand the point of the question. Is there some reason why each and every point would be different? I think you could present any number of fictional stories that contain some truth. Naturally, by definition it does not work the other way. You can’t include fictional items and still have the story being true strictly speaking. My personal theory, and that’s all that it is, is that stories from different cultures which appear to have great similarities, are all descended in legend from one true story. What is unique about Judaism is that they took an incredible amount of care to ensure the stories were preserved in exact detail across the ages.
“What is the “official” creation story that we have today?”
I don’t believe such a thing exists. Scientists claim that the big bang scenario is as good as it gets. Creationists (of which I am one) stand behind the account in Genesis. To say that there is an “official” story implies that agreement has been reached.
“however, there’s a problem with the two faith based ones that may or may not (depending on a person’s bent) be a problem in the “official” creation story. That is, the purpose of the earth.”
I can understand your problem here based on our previous discussions. It’s hardly surprising. Think about it. What is the definition of a “purpose” as used in context? Wouldn’t a good definition be “the primary function or intent as developed by the creator”? If you reject the idea of a creator, then any purpose proposed is not likely to be satisfactory unless it is the type of purpose that you would have for making something. In fact, the very idea of assigning something a “purpose” is rather arbitrary. Unless something was made with an intent, you could just as easily say it has no purpose all. Oh, it might accomplish any number of things, but to my way of thinking “purpose” implies intent, and without intelligence there can be no intent. Questions on biology tests used to drive me crazy when they asked things like: Why does the zebra have stripes? The teacher was generally looking for something like “to keep the predators from being able to spot an individual.” How did they come up with that? The zebras didn’t decide it. Absent God, nature couldn’t decide it. Since no decided it, then it has no purpose. We can observe that the stripes may accomplish that, but in God’s mind they could have had a completely different intent. The best we can do is make a reasoned guess.
“What is the purpose of any creation story, science, mythology, etc? What does it perpetuate in our society as it functions today?”
Exactly so.
“Why does man insist on treating the world and all that is in it counter to how the rest of the world functions?”
We disagree on this. In my opinion, man treats the rest of nature exactly the way that the rest of the living environment would. If it could, that is. Man has simply reached a point where he has become so successful that he has the ability to displace or destroy other species pretty much at will. Take your example with the lion and the gazelle. True enough as is, but suppose instead of there being one lion and say a hundred gazelle, the numbers were more evenly matched? Do you think the hungry lions would establish a quota, stop hunting when they saw the numbers go down? I don’t. If lions, or any other species that I am aware of, began increasing in numbers the way man has done, they would continue to do so until reaching a limit in resources. A good friend of mine (also very liberal) likes to throw out a certain phrase when she gets disgusted with people. She says: “Why don’t we just evolve already!” I don’t think she realizes what she is asking for. Historically, species evolve to be more successful, and generally at the expense of other species. There is nothing about an improved level of development that I am aware of that in any way implies a species is kinder, gentler, etc. We are simply more efficient predators.
The native Americans that you mention had developed a lifestyle where their subsistence depended on continued Bison herds. My understanding is also that the average life span was forty or less and there were other limiters on the population. Had the population started to grow, would they still have spared the Bison and let the children starve? My opinion is that they would have changed something. Even if they didn’t kill more Bison, they would have killed more something to feed the tribe. This is certainly not intended to be an indictment of any people, but simply a recognition that they are people. In the past, peoples that didn’t do what was necessary to survive generally did not survive. In the present day, many people seem to want to remove that responsibility from people. A worthy topic of discussion, but different from the one you posed.
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“I don’t think I really understand the point of the question. Is there some reason why each and every point would be different?”
Poorly phrased question on my part I think. The point I was shooting for was, what makes the story of creation for Christianity or Islam any different from the story of creation from The Greek mythology. I think you addressed this very well though regardless of how my question came across.
Very good points all the way around.
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“In the present day, many people seem to want to remove that responsibility from people. A worthy topic of discussion, but different from the one you posed.”
Very different and I’m gonna write about it! At some point…in the near future. Like…Tuesday? Maybe Monday. I have become decidedly ill. The unpleasant kind of ill that makes you vomit. I don’t like that action at all. =-(
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